Ice on the Moon

I have been commenting on a couple different sites for the last couple months and it was not a good experience…as if it ever was. The far right has such a stranglehold on these public forums it is scary. The moderators refuse to shut down the harassment when someone (like me) offers alternative opinions. So when people visit these sites they find fanboys that send them away shaking their heads and with no further involvement in space and this is sad. I have tried over the years to be an alternative view on a half a dozen such forums and have always ended up banned for replying to the dogpile of insults and intolerance that inevitably occurs. The sad truth is anything that hints at any “liberal” policy or not found on the SpaceX website is trivialized, mocked, and denigrated. This has become such a pervasive theme on internet forums associated with space that the damage is irreparable. So enough of that. I have reposted this from an earlier entry; before Biden was elected it was “Bernie and the Green New Space Deal”, when I was hoping for a progressive nominee, and now have re-branded. Here we go again:

Converting the United States Military Industrial Complex into something that will create a sustainable future for humankind will be the great feat of history. Nothing impossible about it or even extremely challenging in terms of technology. It is what we should do as a species if we want our children and grandchildren to have any kind of a future. The problem, of course, is that minority of psychopathic neoliberals who happen to control most of the worlds wealth and want nothing to do with anything that does not give them even more god-like power. So we have something we should do and we have a stumbling block. And then what we have is a dire need for people like Bernie Sanders.

The present Army Navy Air Force Marines establishment is about fighting wars here on Earth against other superpowers whose people collectively have no desire to watch the world economy crash and possibly billions die in a global conflict. It is mostly a façade and militaries exist largely as a safeguard against an individual like Hitler coming to power in one of three or four superpower nations. As recent events show, this is not so unlikely. The nations thus retain their militaries as a safeguard against any other power seeking to subjugate them. The United States maintains armed forces so far beyond what other nations have it is absurd and why we do that is fairly obvious- it is an industry that makes a lot of people rich. Those people and companies want to keep making money and anything threatening their gold mine is acted against swiftly.

The best strategy is thus to not threaten Military Industrial Complex (MIC) “wealth creators” but instead offer those players an alternative. That alternative is Space Based Solar Power (SBSP) using the Moon as the new industrial base to power planet Earth. Solar thermal towers with their mirror fields and molten salt storage are about the only practical technology for generating energy in a sustainable manner on Earth but unfortunately all the great deserts of the world combined are not going to enable a western standard of living for 10 billion people. And make no mistake, the only way out of this is to provide a decent standard of living for everyone on Earth. All of us.

While NewSpace ideology has caused inestimable damage to space exploration and colonization, the flagship company has at least popularized Vertical Take-off Vertical Landing (VTVL) as being the most efficient method of reusing rockets. It will likely be decades before reusing really large Super Heavy Lift Vehicles (SHLVs) breaks even economically but at least the Ayn-Rand-in-space-train-wreck has done something “not harmful.” Whether VTVL would have happened anyway if the shuttle boosters had been the originally specified pressure-fed ocean recovered type instead of solid fuel remains to be seen. I suspect with pressure-feds a variant of the shuttle would still be flying.

The way forward is a first stage at least half again as large as the Saturn V, landing on a ship at sea, as the first piece of hardware. Four large engines and a smaller central landing engine, will become the standard. Much like airliners have become a giant version of the original German ME-262 fighter, the standard rocket will become a larger version of the Saturn V. The second stage will likely fly around the planet and land back at the launch site using ceramic tile technology with one central engine and four smaller landing engines- or a low thrust setting might be utilized to form a plume shielding the vehicle during reentry (as proposed in the 60’s by Philip Bono)- or a combination. And the third stage will be a wet workshop with the engine section possibly doing a lunar free-return back to re-enter and land for reuse.

SHLVs from the U.S., from Russia, from China, with versions built under license by European and Asian companies, will largely replace the cold war toys and nuclear triad hardware still being developed or modernized.  Warships and warplanes will no longer be the money-makers. The new Military Industrial Complex wealth creation strategy will be based on giant rockets. Lunar-water-shielded wet workshops will first go into Geosynchronous Earth Orbit (GEO) and then to a Lunar Cycler fleet and finally as spaceship crew compartments. Eventually immense power stations will lift from the surface of the Moon and find their way to GEO where they will begin to beam carbon-free power down to planet Earth.

That is the Green New Space Deal.

Beyond changing over the Military Industrial Complex from Earth-based to space-based and powering planet Earth carbon-free there is the original colonization plan of Gerard K. O’Neill. In any plan similar to O’Neill’s, a hundred years from now the population of Earth may begin to decrease as beam-propelled space-liners leave daily for space habitats. Within a few centuries Earth will be a place to visit like a national park. Not only will Earth be a garden but miles in diameter Bernal spheres will be sent on centuries long voyages to other star systems. There are very few technical challenges to this bright future. In contrast, the road humankind is on now has a good chance of ending in extinction.

My comment from The Space Review: Unfortunately the legion of NewSpace fans that have hijacked almost all public discourse on space do not tolerate creative & crazy ideas like Space Solar Power satellite factories on the Moon as the solution to climate change. They are mostly libertarian far-right Ayn Rand types who worship Elon Musk as the embodiment of John Galt, Howard Roark, and Tony Stark, all rolled into one Cult figure.

Only a state sponsored program is going to enable any space mega-projects and Musk is not a Space Solar advocate. He instead wants to strip-mine Earth orbit with tens of thousands of his very own small satellites beaming internet to a world that does not need this contrived convenience…and his followers are not open-minded about anything not found on the SpaceX website.

Comment by Vladislaw· 

“that have hijacked almost all public discourse on space do not tolerate creative & crazy ideas “

“You mean how you hijack all public discourse and do not tolerate creative and crazy ideas put forth by SpaceX? You are your own worse enemy. You do not tolerate ANY idea outside of your own.“

Projection and lies, the very foundation of Trumpism. And Vlad hates Trump. So it is also The Cult of Musk, like The Cult of Trump, that needs to end.

Counting the hours now. Thank you God he is out. Thank you God.

“In 1969, the Space Task Group proposed a plan for the post-Apollo future space program. One component was a space tug so crewed flight between the Earth-orbiting space station and the lunar-orbiting space station, from there to the lunar surface. For budget and other reasons, President Nixon rejected this plan, ultimately approving only the space shuttle.”

We see the results of Nixon going cheap. If liquid rocket boosters had been used instead of the SRB’s it is highly likely an iteration of the Space Transportation System would still be going strong today.

What we know now a half century later is that cosmic radiation makes long duration missions Beyond Low Earth Orbit (BLEO) in the “Cislunar Sea” problematic. Not only dosing but debilitation makes any multi-year human activities in space without a Near Sea Level Radiation 1 Gravity (NSLR1G) environment to be ruinous to health and simply unacceptable. Young females are especially vulnerable to damage and higher risks of cancer from dosing and debilitation.

We now know the best form of the space tug proposed in 1969 is the “Lunar Cycler.” A fleet of Cyclers might be the superhighway connecting a lunar industrial infrastructure with Earth. The stumbling block is exactly what doomed the Space Shuttle; going cheap. There is no cheap. The biggest obstacle to expanding humankind into space right now is “NewSpace” which only allows “entrepreneurs” and the profit motive to determine how we leave Earth. This path is even more certain to fail than the Space Shuttle which was sold on it’s relative cheapness and ability to “pay for itself.” Only massively shielded crew compartments and tether generated artificial gravity systems are going to enable humans to live in space for years at a time. These constructs will mass in the thousands of tons. Water as shielding brought up from the Moon using 20 to 25 times less energy than from Earth to double-hulled “Fat Workshops” are the most practical solution.

The new administration has the opportunity to address Climate Change by proposing Space Solar Power satellite factories on the Moon as the ultimate solution. A “Green New Space Deal.” The prerequisite is a state sponsored program of Super Heavy Lift Vehicle launches of 6 to 8 lunar missions per year- to start with. The ISS needs to end and those funds redirected, and iterations of the SLS with reusable boosters and a reusable engine module, as well as a very large diameter upper stage double hulled wet workshop, are the fundamental building blocks. The obvious source to pay for this is the DOD. A pipeline of fat workshops going to Low Lunar Orbit (we now know there are sustainable “frozen orbits”) and then utilized as Lunar Cyclers and GEO platforms can also provide, by mating nuclear propulsion modules, true spaceships.

These spaceships could carry nuclear devices to deflect impact threats and conceivably replace the present strategic deterrent of terrestrial delivery systems. An Earth free of nuclear weapons, powered from space carbon free. As envisioned by Gerard K. O’Neill, lunar resources and space solar power would be the economic engine eventually enabling the colonization of space.

“We are still on track to take the first woman to the moon by 2024 and complete a Mars landing by 2029.”

Possible to orbit the Moon by 2024 but the Mars statement is, in my opinion, totally impossible. Simply because radiation, that elephant in the room NASA does not like to talk about, is just too ruinous to health, and added to debilitation, is not going to allow humans to go anywhere without massive shielding and artificial gravity. And it might as well be added that shielding will be lunar water lifted with 20 to 25 times less energy than from Earth, and a tether generated artificial gravity system several thousand feet long. A minimum thousand tons of water and roughly equal masses spinning around each other would be a “true spaceship” and we will not be seeing that by 2029.

The SLS may get us to the Moon a half dozen times but much more powerful reusable boosters will be needed to replace the SRB’s and the engine module will need to be recoverable and reusable. This future iteration will require funding…now. And it will essentially be what the shuttle should have been; more lift than the Saturn V with a core stage tank as the necessary sacrifice to the rocket equation. The best way to begin that is to end the ISS ASAP and redirect those resources.

“You’re right: in the 1960s, NASA defined a bold goal, determined the best way to accomplish it, and told industry what to build to make it happen. Those days are over. Today industry decides what it wants to build, their senators tell NASA that it must accomplish things that way, and NASA is left to awkwardly try to explain how this fits into some kind of coherent goal. What a sad state of affairs.”

You’re wrong: in the 2020’s, NASA is still the Space Agency of the United States of America and “those days” are NOT over. Not if the New Administration tells the public those days are back.

A Super Heavy Lift Vehicle carries that refueling depot with it and goes direct to the Moon. The very raison d’etre of the Saturn V. Not only does a SHLV make depots unnecessary, but diving down through the Van Allen belts to within a few hundred miles of the Earth’s surface to a rendezvous as an everyday maneuver is….far more that just putting gas in your car. It is a mess popularized by NewSpace as the small rocket snake oil cure for all difficulties.

If “relying on smaller rockets plus propellant depots” will allow more frequent missions why does the SpaceX “Super Heavy” have over 11 million pounds of thrust? Quoting NewSpace dogma, which was useful in promoting the inferior lift Falcon 9 in years past, quickly gets SpaceX promoters into trouble.

The Super Heavy is a booster design in the right thrust range but with only one problem- the Raptor engines are about one quarter as powerful as the Saturn V F-1 and thus four times too many. The Starship is not a good design at all being simply an attempt at creating a shuttle variant that does not expend an external tank. It has no escape system for starters- a fundamental mistake of the shuttle it repeats.

Once NASA gets out the way? NASA did accomplish reusable boosters- the Shuttle SRB’s each had almost half a million pounds more thrust than the Falcon 9. The shuttle was actually a Saturn V class launch vehicle that wasted most of it’s lift on the Orbiter. The Falcon is a much less powerful vehicle which uses too many smaller engines. The Crew Dragon has a poorly designed escape system that packs over 3000 pounds of hypergolic propellants into a small capsule. The P.R. hype of their products and the endless damning of NASA by a legion of fanboys has made it obvious who the “main obstacle” is. The NewSpace ideology of “smaller-cheaper-no Moon-NASA inept” has done a great deal of unrealized and profound damage to space exploration.

The only practical way to have any kind of cislunar habitat is going to be utilizing lunar water for cosmic ray shielding lifted from the poles using 20 to 25 times less energy than from Earth. Since a capsule would require around 400 tons any acceptable amount of living space for even a small crew is going to mass well over a thousand tons of just water to start with. A true space station would not only protect against dosing but also debilitation with tether-generated artificial gravity. The definition of “true” being a Near Sea Level Radiation 1 Gravity environment (NSLR1G).

It follows the only practical way to place these kinds of water-shielded compartments into space is a double-hulled “fat” wet workshop since this will already be stressed for one gravity and the outer propellent layer can handily contain the water shield. These Fat Workshops are going to require an even more powerful iteration of the SLS than is being considered now lifting well over the 130 metric tons specified. And of course the critical hardware is a semi-expendable Robot Lunar Lander that can convert lunar ice into propellant and make as many trips as possible bringing water up.

Once a pipeline for these true space stations is operating then docked landers can be used as propulsion modules to allow Lunar Cycler operations and a fleet of Cyclers will create a constant flow of personnel and materials to and from the Moon. Each one of these several Space Stations and likely half a dozen or more Cyclers would mass several thousand tons and a state sponsored program of expanded SLS launches the only practical way to establish this permanent Cislunar human presence and infrastructure. Space “entrepreneurs” are not going to do it.

Out of all the hardware listed such as the Super Heavy Lift Vehicle (SLS) and Fat Workshop and Robot Lunar Lander, the most important piece of the puzzle missing is a cryogenic propellent engine in the 2 million pound thrust range. Either that or the unlikely option of a much greener solid fuel booster. When this F-1 class SHLV engine appears it will be a signal we are ready to commit to a real space program.

Those 147 need to resign. And Fox News shut down. And Trump imprisoned. Most important, Americans need to understand these conspiracy theories are lies used to manipulate them. Trust of the fifth estate must be restored. That means Facebook has to come clean and turn off those algorithms driving people insane. And it better happen quick. Instead of one Timothy McVeigh, we have thousands of them looking for their opportunity right now.

At this moment, 4:30 in the evening in Arizona, the D.C. curfew is going into effect and the police are moving in to move everyone out of the Capitol. The news is saying the rally where Trump incited the mob to march on the Capitol was organized by “Women for Trump.” This is disquieting to me because the Russian Revolution started with women marching. And a woman was shot and killed during the storming of the Capitol though the details have not been released. The races in Georgia have been called and the democrats have control of the senate. Trump praised the mob saying they were special and loved and to go home. Not very sincerely in my opinion. Trump was visibly happy. And calls for the 25th amendment to be enacted to remove the President from office are being talked about.

On the epiphany, during the year the Christmas star reappeared, with the pandemic and the fires that burned across the west, Americans voted against the populist strongman. But those that did not…tens of millions…are wondering if this is the moment that their grievances will be addressed. That those not white enough or evangelical enough or free market capitalist enough might now be “purged.” A black and a Jew were elected in Georgia of all places to take control of the senate- and this will only fuel conspiracy theories. Both my wife and daughter are scared and crying.

7:00 Ben Sasse is cracking jokes and giving a feel good speech- after acknowledging a woman had lost her life on the premises only hours previously. Some of them actually laughed. And there are reports of the cabinet considering the 25th amendment and removing Trump. And members of the Trump administration resigning.

I now realize the power the millions of Trump supporters believe they wield- the power of the bully, of the narcissist, of the sociopath, of the psychopath, wherever they fall in that arc. My wife told me last night the Korean proverb of the Buddhist monk: the monk that is unhappy in the temple needs to move, not the temple. On the forum where I comment on space flight I am relentlessly trolled by a gang of libertarian cyberthugs. Why do I keep going back there? In my workplace I am unhappy with the laziness and incompetence of my supervisors and coworkers. I need to find another job. And in regards to the nation I am a citizen of, I have been thinking quite clearly in terms Truth and Power. There is the Truth that is and the Power that does.

There are those with a worldview that leans toward utilitarianism:

The doctrine that actions are right if they are useful or for the benefit of a majority, the doctrine that an action is right insofar as it promotes happiness, and that the greatest happiness of the greatest number should be the guiding principle of conduct. It is in one sense the embodiment of the Christian life.

There are those with a worldview that leans towards objectivism:

The philosophy that the proper moral purpose of one’s life is the pursuit of one’s own happiness (see rational egoism), that the only social system consistent with this morality is one that displays full respect for individual rights embodied in laissez-faire capitalism.

So… pursuing ones own happiness through capitalism does tend to enable people to make jokes in the same building a woman died by violence a few hours earlier. It is the power that ignores what does not make one happy or trivializes that which distracts from the pursuit of ones happiness. The truth is the greatest happiness for the greatest number can only occur when the death of a human being is not ignored and the fact that an election was not “rigged” is accepted.

12:32 in Arizona and I am watching congress vote on “the objection” and looking at the number tallies go up. Those Republicans who are supporting Trumpism must never be forgotten or forgiven and voted out.

137 republican traitors in congress and only 64 that are not is my last count at around a quarter after one Arizona time.

01:30 in Arizona and here we go, Pence and Pelosi are standing side by side and down goes the gavel. 7 senate traitors- and the objection is not sustained.

And now we go through the 50 states…And now it is over.

I think it is becoming clearer and clearer that the left is about truth and the right is about power. Truth being the people at some point cannot be manipulated into being wage slaves for the rich and demand redistribution of wealth. Power is about money being the god of this world and the rich craving absolute authority over this world, which they believe they own, as their property.

The invaders, alien beings worshiping a dead god, their destiny, to attempt to enslave the Earth, their only purpose, to make it their world.

Somehow I must convince a disbelieving world that the nightmare has already begun.

This election is over and all this is actually about the next election. If we do not respond to this then it could be the end of America in 4 years. All of these Trumpists must be held accountable. It has gone way way too far and now we have to go back. America is divided as it never has been before except during the civil war. The only more dangerous time was during Reagan when nuclear Armageddon threatened civilization.

(CNN)All 10 living former US defense secretaries declared that the US presidential election is over in a forceful public letter published in The Washington Post on Sunday as President Donald Trump continues to deny his election loss to Joe Biden.The letter — signed by Dick Cheney, James Mattis, Mark Esper, Leon Panetta, Donald Rumsfeld, William Cohen, Chuck Hagel, Robert Gates, William Perry and Ashton Carter — amounts to a remarkable show of force against Trump’s subversion efforts just days before Congress is set to count Electoral College votes.”Our elections have occurred. Recounts and audits have been conducted. Appropriate challenges have been addressed by the courts. Governors have certified the results. And the electoral college has voted. The time for questioning the results has passed; the time for the formal counting of the electoral college votes, as prescribed in the Constitution and statute, has arrived,” the group wrote.

Just saw on the news he signed the coronavirus relief bill. Thank God. Maybe that means this is all really going to be over soon. If he would just concede…

“Sine qua non” is an interesting term concerning the military. Trinity was the code name of the first detonation of a nuclear device. It was conducted by the United States Army at 5:29 a.m. on July 16, 1945. On November 1, 1952, the first fusion device, followed by Castle Bravo, a deliverable version, on March 1, 1954, arguably made war, as it had been known, impossible.

Except for the subsequent delivery systems of bombers, missiles, and submarine missiles, this would seem to make most military forces no longer worth the money spent on them. But instead of only these mutually destructive nuclear weapons the cold war saw uncounted trillions of dollars thrown at a universe of military hardware.

Helicopters were my life for about 14 years. They do things nothing else can but as a warfighting machine the easiest things to shoot down there is. The reason “only” 5000 were shot down in Vietnam was the triple canopy of jungle shielding them much of the time. Likewise the Air Force has been trying to get rid of the A-10 for the simple reason the missiles now in use will shoot them down in droves on the first day of hostilities and they will go nowhere near the enemy after that first day.

With quantum communication links the drone is now the combat aircraft of choice. Even without secure communications they are fairly capable of being sent on strike missions preprogrammed like a cruise missile and do a better job than human pilots. This is the age we live in and much of what the public is told about the military is misinformation used to promote an agenda. Like keeping pilots employed flying F-35’s. Missile defense is one of these multi-billion dollar scams that has generated so much revenue that even though it does not work it goes on and on.

Weaponizing Earth orbit with smallsat constellations is an incredible mistake knowingly made simply in the interest of greed and enabled by corruption. That proliferation is actually what “Space Force” is all about. That is the reality.

Starship is a variation of the Shuttle concept that does not expend a tank. How well this is going to work is not really clear….and it probably will not be the “game-changer” it has been hyped as.

The SLS is a straightforward remake of the Apollo concept and unlike Starship, future iterations with recoverable liquid boosters and engine module (only expending core tankage), could become what the Space Transportation System should have been. This could make sending large payloads direct to the Moon every couple months for decades to come a reality.

For close to a decade the NewSpace fans have demonized the Moon because a certain entrepreneurs rocket was pretty much useless for anything having to do with a lunar return. When evidence for lunar ice was found in 2010 NASA should have immediately focused on the Moon and abandoned the dead end of LEO. Pandering to the NewSpace business plan has set space exploration back a decade and why NewSpace is the worst thing that has ever happened to space exploration. Much of the unhappiness with anything having to do with the Moon is simply a legacy of that NewSpace brainwashing.

Your crystal ball hopefully has a crack in it. It is not just the 42,000 refrigerator-size starlinks; tens of thousands of “micro-sats” in the 200 pound range and other constellations will be going up trying to cash in on beaming cat videos to Eskimos. This whole field of dreams is also connected to the defense industry and a new kind of cold war proliferation these companies are depending on revenue from when everyone finds out there are not enough Eskimos to pay for it. As for this being “good” for anyone, it is actually an unnecessary service that is dangerous and a bad idea in so many ways that it never should have been entertained. The strip-mining of Earth orbit.

“I’ve been in favor for some time now of using a tax-“

The libertarian crazies on this forum, and there are a couple dozen at least, will automatically troll you when they read that sentence. You are about to get a lesson in freedom of speech. That is, “freedom” is a code word for “greed” to Neoliberals, and “liberty” (as in libertarian) is code for “NO TAXES/NO REGULATION.” It is all about absolute greed and money as the god of this world. And you are not even mentioning that.

“-you don’t have much business telling others what’s good enough for their uses-“

You are right…my business is keeping this planet, with me and mine living on it, from self-destructing. 100,000 pieces of space junk is a significant step away from that goal. You might be one of a hundred million that consider money the god of this world and your personal pleasure and convenience all that matters- but I am not.

Yes. The selling point is latency. Otherwise a much less problematic GEO solution would be the obvious better path than tens of thousands of smallsats.

It was a field of dreams created to satisfy the eternal craving for convenience on the cheap. Unfortunately there is no cheap and this is going to end badly.

“The president also opposed provisions in the NDAA to rename military bases that honor Confederate officers and language that restricts his power to use military construction money for other projects.”

His legacy is bases named after traitors, so named due to the political influence of racists, and a rusty wall that keeps nobody from going over, around, or under it. And a military force that risks no members in the field yet enjoys all the privileges and prestige of those who do- his way of spitting on the military he considers suckers and losers.

Unfortunately, more and more things above this world tend to destabilize the fragile state of Mutually Assured Destruction that has existed since the early 60’s.

Things that destabilize and cause catastrophes are always overlooked until after the worst has happened. Not only smallsat constellations but the small cheap rockets used to launch them are…dangerous. No doubt about it. Unless you want to make money…then no such talk is tolerated of course.

“Well, the people in USA can only dream about having an health care system for everyone and other social benefits than the ones Scandinavian people have. And yes, these countries are capitalist countries that care about their population and they are the proof that capitalist economy and protective social system are not two system that mutually excluded each other.
So, the USA could have a very efficient and universal affordable health care system for all its population but greed and egoistic culture is too much there.”

I kind of like you off the bat but your those-who-stay-in-the-cave Ayn Rand Fountainhead rant tells me we will likely not be friends. Too bad.

You know…your hero might be doing what the mysterious forces of fate have allowed him and he thinks, like most over-achievers, he did it all himself. And he believes his way is “the right way.” But sometimes what seems so right, after working so long and so hard to achieve it, turns out to be wrong. And most cannot accept that.

After ten years of watching the Musk Cult badger, bully, and lie…and knowing Elon is surrounded by enablers egging him on to ever greater egoistic heights, I tend to automatically look at the opposite of whatever he is doing.

And it turns out that would be better for everyone much of the time. Really.
Consider it disobedience to the fan club. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnodcLLEZw4

Weaponizing and proliferating in Earth orbit is a huge mistake.

There is no calling it good. You are making the same argument that led to over 69,000 nuclear weapons ready to incinerate civilization at the height of the cold war in 1986. We are now down to less than 18,000. Still enough to crash the global infrastructure which would result in the deaths of billions.

If you think better internet is worth the risk…

The best book I have read to date, and I have read more than a few, explaining the big picture concerning the right in the U.S., is “Democracy in Chains.” The lady tells the story as simply as it can be told and it is complicated but not too hard to understand for most people.

In a nutshell, it is all about greed and lies and connects directly with slavery. That surprised me but it is true. The Neoliberal dream is a world where everything is owned. Proponents will not admit it but this ultimately includes people. This was why “compassionate conservatism” had to go hand in hand with the Bush era “ownership society” at the turn of the century. One was the lie hiding the naked greed of the other. And lying is what they do like the rest of us breathe.

The right is the 1% conning the rest of us into being wage slaves. Nothing more. Redistribution of wealth is the blasphemy the Neoliberals who worship money as the god of this world will not tolerate. Taxes are redistribution of wealth and almost everything, EVERYTHING, we are being fed by the corporate-owned media has something to do with eliminating taxes on the rich. That is why they mention it only enough to emphasize it is not on the table. Truth.

I would add that it is not so much the problem I have with sociopaths like Musk and Bezos as those who worship them. The NewSpace Cult is made up largely of gullible libertarians who are toxic individuals living in a fantasy world of superhero billionaires.

They are not heroes. They might have been decent people before it went to their head, but how they treat their employees (which is really how they became rich), and the minions feeding their egos, have made them a problem for the human race, not a solution. This is not a new problem. The Guillotine was the solution in France and the modern world will fall apart if that happens again.

For close to a decade the NewSpace fans have demonized the Moon because a certain entrepreneurs rocket was pretty much useless for anything having to do with a lunar return. When evidence for lunar ice was found in 2010 NASA should have immediately focused on the Moon and abandoned the dead end of LEO. Pandering to the NewSpace business plan has set space exploration back a decade and why NewSpace is the worst thing that has ever happened to space exploration. Much of the unhappiness with anything having to do with the Moon is simply a legacy of that NewSpace brainwashing.

The “wealth generation” and vast incomprehensible and obscene personal wealth of Musk and Bezos comes from low corporate taxes and low wages paid to their employees. Which makes what you wrote largely meaningless and a distraction. That was then and the Reagan Revolution is what created the present in which the middle class has largely been destroyed.

“If those taxes returned it wouldn’t really effect a company like SpaceX or Tesla-“

You might think that but I doubt your view is accurate at all. Everything is not poured back into the company; It all goes into people pockets. The least of it into the employees. You have a romantic view of your hero. Now I understand. He spends money to get what he wants Vlad; read to the end to see how that works.

But, as I said, it is not so much Musk and Bezos, it is the Cult that surrounds those with incredible wealth. Wealth that at one time was acknowledged by almost everyone, except the robber barons, as the singular greatest danger to democracy. A century of free market voodoo economic mythology has deceived the citizenry.
It is an evil religion and that is the actual fact.

If anyone doubts that all they have to do is look at “Citizens United.”
https://www.brennancenter.o…

“Citizens United allowed big political spenders to exploit the growing lack of transparency in political spending. This has contributed to a surge in secret spending from outside groups in federal elections. Dark money expenditures increased from less than $5 million in 2006 to more than $300 million in the 2012 election cycle and more than $174 million in the 2014 midterms. In the top 10 most competitive 2014 Senate races, more than 71 percent of the outside spending on the winning candidates was dark money. These numbers actually underestimate the impact of dark money on recent elections, because they do not include super PAC spending that may have originated with dark money sources, or spending that happens outside the “electioneering communications window” 30 days before a primary or 60 days before a general election.

Finally, because they can hide the identities of their donors, dark money groups also provide a way for foreign countries to hide their activity from U.S. voters and law enforcement agencies. This increases the vulnerability of U.S. elections to international interference.”