Ice on the Moon

• VirgilSamms January 30, 2011 at 3:41 pm
• “There are proposed technologies that have been demonstrated in the lab that totally remove this shielding requirement.”This is the same smokescreen that has been thrown up for years to confuse the poorly informed. Let me state the facts one…more…time;The heavy nuclei component of galactic cosmic radiation, over 300 times more damaging than lighter particles, is the prime radiation hazard and showstopper for long duration missions. Not solar events, not the other types of radiation or the lighter particles in GCR; heavy nuclei.
• Heavy nuclei
  Heavy nuclei
  Heavy nuclei
• Got it? Nothing in the way of an active shield will stop this stuff except maybe a magnetic field so powerful it will collapse steel and require hundreds of megawatts of power; totally impractical. Light shielding rich in hydrogen mitigates the secondary radiation caused when the heavy nuclei hit shielding and spray even more harmful radiation; but to completely stop the heavy nuclei takes about 500 tons of shielding- enough to simulate the earths air column, which works out to about 14 feet of water. In addition to radiation is zero G debilitation, which will cause so many problems on long missions besides just permanent damage to the human body that artificial gravity is a must have. And a tether is by far the most practical engineering solution- a “centrifuge” is probably the worst. This nonsense about solar storms and solar energetic particles being the big problem has got to stop; the real problem is the heavy stuff and if you protect against that it completely protects against everything else. As for Gary Church; listen to the message and don’t worry about the messenger. You can check my facts and that is all you need to do unless you want to play the ad hominem junior high name calling game that is so popular on this site with its so many space industry “experts.”
• VirgilSammsJanuary 30, 2011 at 3:51 pm
• “Sidemount, old Project Orion nukes, megaton spaceships with heavy water shielding are dead give aways. Also less DoD and more NASA funding are tells.
  Nice dreams actually, but not politically real.” Dreams? No, the only way to get into space actually. If you think politics are only what determine the future then you have no future at all. Politicians are puppets and the strings get pulled in so many unpredictable ways that politicians are about as useful as economists in shaping the future. It is you and me that make the future. You can drag someone kicking and screaming to the right solution but if they just turn their back on it then there is nothing else to be done.

I have been fighting these NewSpace idiots for over ten years! Amazing. Banned over and over again as they dogpiled me with insults and emailed to the editor into oblivion a dozen or so times. But I kept coming back. The comments advocating a better path than NewSpace keep irritating the Musk fanboys:

“I have no problem with a couple Starship 2.0’s spinning around each other on a mile long tether system. With a near sea level radiation 1G environment the crew can go on long missions, even multi-year missions depending on what kind of living space they have, with zero ill effects. What needs to be understood is the shielding mass inside those two Starship 2.0’s, the mass of water, would total tens of thousands of tons. That mass of water would also be part of a closed loop life support system so using propellent as shielding is not really an option. Chemical energy is completely impractical for that much mass.”

“If you have an industrial infrastructure on the Moon, like a giant factory complex, then it will employ thousands of people and I would guess it would be more economical for those workers to just go up to large shielded rotating space stations and work on those for the necessary 1G time. It all depends on how long they can stay in Lunar gravity before permanent damage is incurred. If they can work on the Moon for several weeks, maybe up to a month, before they have to go into 1G then I would say just rotating them up to a different job in Lunar orbit would be the way to go. I envision the sleeper train concept for use on icy bodies way out there like Ceres but if that is what will be required on the Moon then so be it.”

“Your terminology is all messed up. You acclimate to high altitude. You saturate when you dive. There is no “adapting” to long duration zero gravity and space radiation- there is only debilitation and dosing. I would say there is no “memory” in the muscles, just gravity making it all work the way it is supposed to and the less gravity the less that will work. Muscle and bone decondition if not put under regular stress. Gravity is the number one regular stressor which is why no matter how much you exercise and pound your body in space it still wastes away. Half and half may not even work that well. Humans may only be able to tolerate zero G without that wasting damage for 8 hours a day, or even 6 hours a day, or even 4 hours a day. We do not know. I seriously doubt an hour or two strapped into a centrifuge is going to stop it. I do not believe there is going to be any success at all playing this game of partial gravity and partial shielding, Near sea level radiation and 1 gravity is what is going to allow humans to work and thrive in space because that is not going to permanently damage them while less gravity and more radiation certainly will.”

“It is not about “adapting.” The body is adapted to 1 G by evolution. If you want to evolve as a 1/6 gravity species that is going to take several thousand years at least. I will not argue with you and say it is not possible that sleeping in a centrifuge or even a few hours of exercise or both might keep a person healthy and able to go back to living a normal life on Earth without lengthy rehab.

I would guess that will not be the case and it will be a half and half proposition at best. Half the time living in 1G and half in zero. 1/6 G might bump that down a little. That is the best case scenario. It may be that 1/6 G is nearly as bad as zero gravity in regards to muscle and bone debilitation since no amount of exercise stops that from happening in just a few months to the point of permanent damage. And it is damage when you lose that muscle and bone mass permanently.

If it is a matter of half and half then you have to agree those toys are obviously not going to work. I think I read somewhere that zero G has measurable effects after 11 days but I cannot find it anywhere. If so then a Moon worker might get away with a month “down” and then have to go “up” for at least a couple weeks. No way of knowing yet.”

Two multi-thousand ton shielded habitats spinning at opposite ends of a several thousand foot tether system is the fundamental starting point and, as I stated, orders of magnitude beyond what is being considered. I saw a rendering of Starship 2.0 and it caught my eye. The diameter is about right for the minimum size where you could have the structure for a shielded crew compartment inside.

You are absolutely correct that docking modules to each of the existing ones and connecting more tethers would eventually result in an arc at either end and finally in a complete wheel with the tethers resembling bicycle spokes. Add structure and you have a von Braun wheel. A very large wheel. Stack the wheels and eventually you have a cylinder. Gradually convert the inner structure to outer skin and end caps and the final step is to pressurize the interior, or the interior could be gradually pressurized with end caps added to the cylinder sections as it gets longer.

“I am not a fan of this path to a space colony though, and believe really large habitats would be constructed as such and not gradually. I think the bola configuration is the optimum because the tether system can be reeled in to join the two habitats and then a nuclear propulsion module makes it a spaceship. It might actually work out to have the several thousand ton habitat at one end and everything else necessary for an interplanetary mission as an equal mass at the other end. The spaceship would accelerate to cruise speed and then the tether system would unreel and “split the ship” for the transit.”

“When I compare the Starship and the SLS to the Saturn V, it is for me the ultimate exercise in what could have been. The Shuttle, which I watched from start to finish, was the lesson to be learned and sadly, we, as a nation, continue to flail the water instead of swimming like Tarzan.

In hindsight, the first stage of the Saturn V could have been landed back, like the delta clipper demonstrated in the 90’s (Phil Bono was proposing VTVL designs in the early 60’s). The escape tower and capsule could have also been reusable. Meeting the challenge of the second stage landing back might have been what made the Shuttle a success, if that program had been supported and more focused.

If the Shuttle SRB’s had been instead some form of pressure-fed ocean recovered reusables (as originally specified) and the SSME’s recovered separately (as was later proposed for a cargo shuttle version), instead of mounted on the abomination that was the Orbiter, then the STS could have been stacked vertically. And with a different design to transport crew (with an escape system) it would have looked like the SLS. And it would likely never have killed anybody and still be flying.

The central idea of the Shuttle was a Saturn V class launch vehicle that recovered everything except the second stage propellent tankage. That structure was to be sacrificed on the altar of the rocket equation and it was an excellent concept then and now. Designed to be within budget and to satisfy the multiple agendas in play, the Shuttle cost about as much as the Saturn V per launch but went nowhere except LEO. It is a prime example of the government buying into a very bad design.

Now we have a private entity with this own pet project. In my opinion it is not much different than the Shuttle.”

“Thank you for the article Ms. Grieco.
International cooperation requires a goal to cooperate with each other about. If the goal is to solve common problems faced by the entire planet then space has plenty to choose from.

1. With large human crewed GEO space platforms as essentially embassies in space, any acts against these platforms would be very unlikely. “Testing” anti-satellite systems against them would be acts of war. This would be an insurance policy for civilization in that such platforms, with massive radiation shielding immune to even a Carrington level event, would always be able to guarantee no false warnings of nuclear attack.
2. Militarily, space offers the opportunity to move the entire nuclear arsenals of the superpowers off-world. By utilizing human-crewed spaceships as the equivalent of nuclear missile submarines, these “space boomers” can be kept months away in deep space. This would end the present hair-trigger launch-on-warning situation that has put civilization at risk for over half a century.
3. These Space Boomers would also be able to intercept asteroid and comet impact threats and deflect them, thus filling a joint planetary protection function. Another insurance plan for civilization attracting international cooperation.
4. Since these spaceships would have to enable long tours (possibly multi-year) of duty without permanently damaging crew they, and the GEO platforms, would require massive cosmic ray water shielding and artificial gravity systems. The shielding and the structure able to contain the shielding would require nuclear pulse propulsion, which follows since they are already carrying nuclear weapons, and such devices are ideal for deflecting comets and asteroids.
5. The only place to acquire hundreds of thousands of tons of water shielding for fleets of GEO platforms, Lunar Cyclers, and space boomers, and to assemble, test, and launch nuclear missions, is the Moon. The program to make Earth nuclear weapon-free and protect the world from another dinosaur killer would thus depend on an international project to set up a lunar industrial infrastructure.
6. With the Moon able to undertake industrial activity the expansion of this infrastructure to include Space Solar Power satellite components would be yet another insurance policy for civilization as the ultimate solution to providing a western standard of living for the 10 billion people of planet Earth near the end of this century. “A Green New Space Deal.”
7. And lastly, with a large enough population living off-world, this multi-national component of humankind would at some point become independent of Earth and that would be the ultimate insurance policy- the ultimate defense goal.”

“You can build a circular train tube a mile or so in diameter but that is not going to provide for any large population and would likely only be practical on icy very low gravity bodies. The less ice and the more gravity the more expensive and the Moon is not a good candidate. Putting people in a small centrifuge has always been a non-starter for many reasons.”

“We know Humans evolved over millions of years to thrive in 1G and the effects of no gravity are very bad. The effect of very little gravity is going to be bad. Saying “Maybe not” is the same game that has been played for decades concerning radiation. We know humans will not suffer permanent damage in a near sea level radiation one gravity environment.”

“For lunar factory workers that would be my best guess; they would send them up to shielded 1G space stations whatever percentage of the time required to prevent permanent damage. The problem with wheels is that what data there is indicates anything over 3 RPM is going have bad effects and to spin one at a conservative 1 RPM and generate 1G the wheel will have to be 6000 ft in diameter, which is not very practical. A tether system that long, however, is very practical. With likely over 10,000 tons at either end, the tether system loads would not be much different than a suspension bridge.”

“All the data is in on Humans on LEO platforms with no shielding or artificial gravity and it is all bad news. We can put humans in underground bases on the Moon but then they will still debilitate due to the low gravity. Humans have to have gravity and be shielded from radiation and that will require constructs on a scale an “order of magnitude” larger than anybody is funding.”

“Starship 2.0 is big enough to have a double hull with a five meter envelope between the inner and outer hulls. Bringing up water from the Moon would allow that envelope to be filled and used as a cosmic ray shield. Connect two of these together with several thousand feet of tethers and spin them and you have the first true space station providing a near-terrestrial radiation and gravity habitat. Astronauts could do year-long tours of duty with zero ill effects. The tens of thousands of tons of water would make the station invulnerable to even a Carrington level solar event. With the appropriate nuclear propulsion system this first true space station would become the first true spaceship.

And that is what is needed…a fleet of such space stations, lunar cyclers, and spaceships.”

“Marking the edge of Orbital “Space” as where that parking orbit is viable at 100 miles would be a good start. What would be the difference between “Outer Space” and “Deep Space” is an interesting question. There is the magnetosphere and lunar orbital plane to include L2 to consider. Perhaps Outer Space could be considered outside GEO, the magnetosphere, and vicinity of the Moon out to L2. “Cislunar Space” would be everything inside the magnetosphere and a sphere around the Moon encompassing L2. Everything outside a very large sphere around the Earth-Moon system whose surface is at L2 would be Deep Space.”

“GEO is not “Deep Space.” That term is generally accepted as being beyond the cislunar Earth-Moon system, or at least, beyond GEO. Much like the whole reclassification of launch vehicles from the previous Heavy Lift category of 100 tons set by the Saturn V. Earth Orbit should be demarcated at the altitude where a temporary parking orbit is viable, also like the Saturn V used, at around 100 miles. Earth Orbit, Cislunar Space, and Deep Space.”

“Some of us believe in what is good for everyone and some of us believe in what is good for our self. The trouble is that when you only believe in what is good for yourself it is almost always bad for everyone else. What little good competition does is vastly outweighed by the bad and cooperation, while it deprives the greedy predators of their prize, works better. What is good for everyone is good. No man is an island. Most of the “community” here believe in Neoliberalism James. Nothing you say is going to remove them from that universe they exist in. In that universe there is nothing good for anyone else.”

“Elon don’t like Space Solar, says it’s stupid. I think it is the other way around. I notice many other people are thinking the same thing also on youtube channels like the pressure-fed astronaut and common sense skeptic. Hopefully the popular culture tide is finally turning against the Musk cult.”

“What everybody seems to miss is that he might have made more money just dropping those stages in the ocean. The reusability angle was mostly P.R. They might be making a little more than breaking even but not much.”

I have been spending some time trying to refine my speculative concepts on Space Colonization and have had some new thoughts! Going back to the most basic requirement of humans in space and proceeding from there is pointing me at an old project from the first space age: the Chrysler SERV from 1969.

The Flow Chart in my head has followed this path, step by step:

1. What is the critical requirement for human beings to survive and work off-world?
2. Define as Human Space Flight (HSF) Beyond Low Earth Orbit (BLEO).
3. The critical requirement is a Near Sea Level Radiation 1 Gravity environment (NSLR1G).
4. What is required to provide this NSLR1G environment?
5. To provide this environment a “Parker Minimum” 16 foot thick Cosmic Ray Water Shield. (CRWS) and Tether Generated Artificial Gravity system (TGAG) are both necessary.
6. What is required to provide the CRWS-TGAG/NSLR1G for HSF-BLEO?
7. The most practical construct is a double-hulled “wet workshop”, a “Fat Workshop“.

A double-hulled sphere between 60 and 90 feet in diameter would appear to be likely lower and upper limits for a Fat Workshop. Under 60 feet and the inner sphere volume becomes diminutive in comparison with the outer envelope. Over 90 feet and any vehicle configuration to lift the stage into orbit becomes impractical. Lunar water would fill the empty envelope and a pair of these workshops, or an equal mass at the other end of a tether, would create the TGAG system and thus enable the critical NSLR1G habitat.

If a single pressure-fed booster is necessary, this would be in the center of the workshop projecting out of the bottom. The main engine modules would be fixed near the bottom of the sphere in a ring with the resulting vehicle resembling the Chrysler SERV launch vehicle project. As the vehicle climbs first the pressure-fed drops out of the bottom and then engine modules separate from the vehicle in opposite pairs and return for reuse. The last two detach after leaving earth orbit and would loop around the Moon on a free return trajectory back to Earth.

The first payloads would all be Robot Semi-Expendable Landers (RSEL) which would carry enough propellent to insert the Fat Workshop into a Frozen Low Lunar Orbit (FLLO) and then descend to the Lunar Poles for In Situ Resource Utilization (ISRU) of ice deposits. Once propellent has been processed and a load of water stored each lander will shuttle the water up to the orbiting workshops and eventually complete filling of the CRWS’s. Some of the workshops will be used as in-orbit fuel processors and water depots.

When enough robot landers are available, the majority of workshops will begin arriving carrying heavy payloads and fewer robot landers. These arriving workshops will be intercepted by the robot landers which will dock and perform FLLO insertion burns. These first payloads will be TGAG systems to attach pairs of workshops with full CRWS’s together. With two Fat Workshops equipped providing a CRWS-TGAG/NSLR1G environment in FLLO, these “true” Space Stations will enable HSF-BLEO.

While crew capsules could transport astronauts to FLLO it would be a better option to transit complete space stations across the cislunar sea to Geostationary Earth Orbit (GEO) and then send up astronaut crews. As GEO is populated with these space stations some will initially transit back to FLLO while others will be modified into Lunar Cyclers. Once a fleet of Lunar Cyclers begin entering service the stage will be set for operations on the Moon, or rather, beneath the surface of the Moon, to begin.

Spacecraft launched from Earth and from the Lunar surface will be able to intercept and transfer their passengers to the Lunar Cyclers providing transportation between the Earth and the Moon. As the Moon landings begin there will be three initial goals:

First- Set up a Sub-surface Lunar Industrial Infrastructure (SLII) to allow for manufacturing of components supporting a permanent human presence in cislunar space.

Second- To begin manufacture of Space Based Solar Power (SBSP) satellite components.

Third- To begin manufacture of metal alloys for use in nuclear reactors as part of a “Nuclear Moon” program, and for discs used in Nuclear Pulse Propulsion (NPP).

The three initial goals will then enable subsequent programs:

Fourth- To begin the assembly, testing, and deployment of Nuclear Pulse Propelled “true” Spaceships with the express purpose of basing nuclear weapons in deep space away from planet Earth where they can be used to deflect comet and asteroid impacts.

Fifth- To expand the industrial base to large scale alloy production to eventually be used in the manufacture of Bernal Spheres.

Sixth- To expand SBSP to include utilizing the energy for Beam Propulsion, to allow for large scale migration into space from Earth.

And Seventh- To eventually, possibly, launch Interstellar Missions using Beam Propulsion to send Cryo-preserved Humans in Bernal spheres at a small percentage of the speed of light to other star systems using NPP to slow down upon arrival.

Instead, after Apollo we ended up with the mess we are in now. I wrote a comment on Scott Manley’s channel on it: “When the SRB’s caused the loss of Challenger, they should have spent the money on the originally specified pressure-feds. When the side mounting caused the loss of Columbia, they should have made a recoverable engine module, as had been proposed many years previously for a cargo version and put the orbiter on top of the stack. And since the orbiter sucked up so much mass and did not have an abort system, just go back to a capsule with escape tower. What you have then looks alot like SLS. If the SLS had pressure-fed reusable boosters and a reusable escape tower and capsule (or just reuse most of what is in the capsule since the shell takes the beating) then what we have is what the Space Transportation System should have been in 1980- a Saturn V class launch system that only expends one big tank. But instead, the politics made it a football.”

I watched a video by Sydney Brown on Conflict Theory the other day and it made me think about thesis and antithesis and synthesis and how I could apply that…to space exploration. It was a great video:

I have seen how groups form and split away from each other my whole life. In school it was the jocks and the heads, at the beach it was board surfers and body surfers, on the road it was Harly riders and sport bike riders, in the mountains it was skiers and snowboarders, in the air it was hang gliders and paragliders, in politics the right and left, coffee drinkers and tea drinkers, and so on.

In regards to space exploration there seems to be a group called “NewSpace” and a group that can be characterized as “OldSpace.” Elon Musk is of course the shining light for NewSpace and his gang of cyberthugs have dominated all the popular space forums for years. I am not a fan. OldSpace is largely invisible but I recently noticed many commenting on the YouTube channel “Common Sense Skeptic” so I suspect there are far more than anyone realizes. Myself, and I suspect a sizeable percentage of Musk detractors, are “O’Neillians”, or followers of Gerard Kitchen O’Neill, the 1976 author of “The High Frontier”, who we consider the true prophet of space colonization.

Musk is the antithesis of O’Neill. So… what is the synthesis? Can there be one? I would have said no until I saw a graphic for Musk’s “Starship 2.0” a couple days ago. I have been thinking about it:

A 60 foot diameter sphere is big enough to have a double hull with 16 feet between the inner and outer hulls. This envelope is where a “Parker Minimum” cosmic ray water shield could be placed using lunar water. It is a beginning.

Hi Scott,

Thank you so much for replying to my comment about Musk vs O’Neill the other day.

You have such a huge audience!

I was hoping you might review my concept of the “Parker-Dyson-Spudis Continuum.” This is based on the article about space radiation by Eugene Parker, which describes what I call the “Parker Minimum” of 16 feet of water as radiation shielding, the Nuclear Pulse Propulsion work of Freeman Dyson which is the only way to push such massive shielding around the solar system, and the work of Paul Spudis, who I corresponded with and posted on his blog for several years, which describes how to get that water shielding from lunar ice and into space from the Moon using around 20 times less energy than bringing it up from Earth. 

My background is troubleshooting autopilot systems in rescue helicopters which I did for the U.S. Coast Guard. Now I am retired and have taken on space exploration as a hobby, along with paragliding and scuba diving. I used to motorcycles also but gave that up as too dangerous…so I might be considered as halfway intelligent just for that.

I have a fairly comprehensive view of how Humankind should approach space and I think you would be very interested in it. Dr. Spudis passed away recently from cancer and I have nobody to correspond with about it now. Thanks for your time. 

Gary Church

Comments:

Ahhh…Mars. Complete dead end. Gerard K. O’Neill and his people concluded that spinning artificial hollow moons and space solar power is how to take out an insurance policy for humankind. The first step is to exploit the resources of the Moon. O”Neill proposed a state-sponsored public works project using space solar as the economic engine for space colony construction. Musk is the antithesis of this- Rocket Jesus is actually the anti-christ. Musk is the false prophet of space colonization and is strip-mining earth orbit.

Grasshopper

We can do both. And nothing is preventing us from producing artificial gravity on Mars. It’s just that 38% of Earth’s gravity might be enough.

My reply:

@Grasshopper  Nothing preventing that except logic. Why waste resources on Mars when the same amount of time and effort would provide for “an order of magnitude” more people? Why go where there is less solar energy? The only way to provide artificial gravity on a lesser natural body is with some kind of circular accommodation like a train. I wrote about this years ago on my wordpress blog “Ice on the Moon” and called them “sleeper trains” to allow scientists or workers to do tours of duty on icy bodies. While ideal for keeping a limited number of people healthy on very low gravity icy moons and bodies like Ceres, it would never support large populations. The more gravity and less ice the difficulty and expense increase by “order of magnitude.” See how that works? The amount of gravity necessary to keep human beings healthy was decided over millions of years by evolution and that amount of gravity is 1G. Same with radiation. Musk is conning everyone by trivializing this. Wake up.

My reply to another comment:

@pebmets  Fairly good analysis. I have read a stack of books on the shuttle over the years. I do not “appreciate” the shuttle and consider it the second biggest wrong turn NASA ever made. One of many wrong turns and the very worst wrong turn was falling under the sway of Musk, of course. NewSpace is the worst thing that has ever happened to space exploration. Worse than both shuttle disasters. I actually love looking at the starship- it is pretty cool. But…it has no escape system and really serves no purpose beyond what the shuttle did except to keep us trapped in LEO. And make no mistake, this thing is not going anywhere else. All that magic cryogen refueling in orbit? Not worth the trouble. Better ways to do it. There is no cheap.

@pebmets  Yes, I was fascinated by the shuttle for several years even after initially reading that old Greg Easterbrook article, “Scotty beam me out of this deathtrap.” I never thought it was a worthwhile design in any way except one: the salient concept was to have a Saturn V class launch vehicle that only sacrificed one big tank and reused everything else. Unfortunately, while it did accomplish this, it also wasted most of that lift on putting a 737-size glider in LEO and bringing it right back down. Along with all the other problems, that came mostly from trying to go cheap, it was a tremendous waste. There is no cheap. Many people with the ability to think critically KNEW it was no good, they really did, but they went along with it and allowed all the hype to have it’s effect. Just like Musk and his shiny toy, it really all comes down to a few people with an agenda they are trying to profit off of. With Musk it is likely sycophants warping his wrong-headed “vision” of saving the world. Sad.

Other Comments:

“Utterly profound breakthrough”…to LEO? Got news, that “breakthrough” happened when Apollo 8 went to the Moon in 1968. Low Earth Orbit is, like Mars, a complete dead end. Lunar resources are the only “utterly profound” goal to be reached. And Starship is not going to the Moon without multiple refuelings of cryogens in space which nobody seems to understand is an absolute nightmare.

The engines have always been the tip-off that Musk is a hobbyist. The Saturn V F-1 and the space shuttle SRB’s were in the 2 million pound thrust range and that is the minimum starting point for Super Heavy Lift Vehicles. Otherwise you end up with way too many engines and profoundly violate the K.I.S.S. principle. The Raptor is about a quarter the size of the smallest engines most suited for big rockets.

Well…what inspires me is some medical treatments for old age so we have an indefinite lifespan because as long as we are all doomed then our species is also doomed to extinction. We just won’t care until we have some kind of future to care about. That is the holy grail to keep us from dying out…space travel comes after that. Once we stop dying then even if we practice limited reproduction, and we will not stop having children, we will have to eventually go to other stars. So Elon is an idiot if he thinks he is doing what makes sense. He should be investing in regenerative medicine, not rural video gamers.

Exactly: thousands of tons of water shielding and a 2km tether is about right. I wrote about this on my wordpress blog “Ice on the Moon.” Come and let’s discuss Chris.

Replied to a comment on STARSHIP EP4 – SHIP CONDITIONS 

@Scott Manley  To provide a carbon free western standard of living for 10 billion people the space solar power satellites will have to be manufactured in factories on the Moon. That will take around half a century if we start right now with it as an international goal. In the meantime solar thermal power plants and other measures are what will mitigate climate change but only mitigate. To build that lunar infrastructure we need bigger rockets than what Musk is building…and that means state sponsorship. Musks legion of toxic Ayn-Rand-in-space crazies want NASA dismantled and it all handed over to the great one. See how this works? Fully reusable sounds great but to get started we might stick with the original correct idea of the space shuttle which was to expend a single tank on the altar of the rocket equation. Unfortunately they went cheap and messed the shuttle up; that it did not even have an escape system makes that crystal clear. Too many small engines is part of that recipe for failure. There is no cheap. I hate to waste the opportunity to talk to you but I have to go. I will reply later today. Love your channel. Regards

Replied to a comment on Elon Musk Hates Flanges – Starship Update 2022

@Scott Manley  “I’m not a rocket scientist.” Neither is Elon, but everyone seems to think he is. It is really about a billionaire hobbyist following a plan that was discarded as wrong-headed long ago. He has accomplished just enough to allow him to screw up the rest of space exploration and has set us back decades. He is riding the limited reusability success to the detriment of everything that makes any sense. Mars is a dead end. Really. O’Neill was right and space solar power is the solution and now it is the only solution to providing a western standard of living to 10 billion people. Wake up brother.

Replied to a comment on Elon Musk Hates Flanges – Starship Update 2022

@Scott Manley  I don’t know if you have ever looked at my Blog Scott, but essentially it is about what I call the “Parker-Dyson-Spudis Continuum” which comes to a couple conclusions from an “O’Neillian” perspective. Gerard Kitchen O”Neill had some smart young people studying space colonization and one of the very first things they figured out is that Mars is a dead end and Space Solar Power as a state-sponsored public works project is the economic engine necessary to move humankind into space. That is, of course, the opposite of Musk. In my view the critical piece of the puzzle is what I call the “Fat Workshop”; a very large double-hulled upper stage to be partially filled with lunar-ice-derived water for cosmic ray shielding. It will require a SHLV with a much larger throw weight than what Musk is building to send those things to the vicinity of the Moon. At some point the ridiculous number of Raptor-size engines necessary so profoundly violates the K.I.S.S. principle that…well, I think you understand now.

Replied to a comment on Elon Musk Hates Flanges – Starship Update 2022

Engines in the 2 million pound thrust range are a fundamental prerequisite for Human Space Flight Beyond Earth Orbit. It is as simple as that and unfortunately the Raptor is an inferior piece of equipment in that regard. It is close to worthless because it takes so many of them to lift Super Heavy Lift Vehicles (SHLVs). That is just one feature of the shiny that nobody will acknowledge with the critical flaw being there is no escape system. It is just a different kind of shuttle with the same problems.

Commented on Elon Musk Hates Flanges – Starship Update 2022

Does not look right at all. Way too tall…like they just wanted the tallest rocket. They should have gone with 2 boosters mounted on either side like the space shuttle. The starship also has no escape system- a fundamental mistake they made with the shuttle. Considering how many prototypes blew up it seems like they would have the very top a capsule with the crew inside that could be blasted free by a solid rocket system. As is it is just a different kind of shuttle with the same critical flaw.

Commented on STACKED! SpaceX LIFTED Ship 20 With Chopstick Arm’s For The First Time.

I wrote blog entries on this several years ago on my wordpress blog Ice on the Moon posing the idea that small sat constellations are the opposite of what we should be doing. Actually…large Geosynchronous Earth Orbit human-crewed platforms in water shielded space stations would be immune to all these storms.

Commented on What should SpaceX do to avoid losing MORE satellites?!

Any extraterrestrials observing how we are strip mining our planetary orbit to play video games would come to the conclusion we are too stupid to survive and write us off as a soon-to-be extinct species.

Commented on Starlink Is Not Alone – And It Could Lead To Catastrophe | Answers With Joe

“I had one man try to rip my mask off. I’ve been screamed at, I’ve been told to go back to my country,” she said, after someone heard her speak with an accent.”

My uncle was at the Battle of the Bulge, and I was told that, just like in the 1965 war movie, he was a cook…and then he was given a rifle and sent into the fight. The Canadians were also fighting the Nazi’s and the Japanese Empire and over 44,000 gave their lives in the struggle against totalitarianism. Now a new variant of fascism, called Trumpism, is spreading across North America and Canadian truck drivers seem to be the next super-spreaders.

My journey from a completely apolitical disinterested consumer to staunch progressive began around 2003 when I was helping my wife research a college paper for her situational ethics class. I suggested the paper address nuclear weapons and now I am sitting here almost two decades later writing a blog entry about…Fascist Canadian Truck drivers. The twists and turns are easy to see if one reads a few books about the cold war.

We had Nazi Scientists building us a Moon rocket, then we had a committee building the shuttle on the cheap, which was a disaster (two actually), and now we have a borderline sociopath billionaire hobbyist building a new stainless steel shuttle with the very same critical flaw; no escape system. America also has a critical flaw that could see it burned to the ground; neoliberalism.

It was no surprise the shuttle failed as it had no real purpose as there was no plan to expand humankind into space. Now the new shuttle supposedly does have a mission- to make Mars the second home of our species. There are so many things wrong with the shiny shuttle and going to Mars plan it is difficult to even start explaining. The same can be said for the Trumpist neoliberal psychopaths who just might manage to burn it all down.

Lately I have been reading about CRISPR gene editing and this gives me some hope that the ultimate solution to all the world’s problems is a possibility. That problem being death of course. As always, I hold to the fundamental tenet that as long as we are driven by a limited lifespan we are doomed not only as individuals but also as a species. If not a fountain of youth then perhaps a way to freeze people without damage until a cure can be found. I can dream and pray for that.

While the “Freedom Convoy” epic unfolds, I am thinking about the shiny and what could have been. I imagine the shiny with an escape system and a pair of pressure fed boosters attached to either side of it. They could have built it back in the 70’s but nobody except a few visionaries like Philip Bono that Vertical Take-Off/Vertical Landing (VTVL) was the way to go for reusable launch vehicles. A pair of monster pressure fed ocean recovered side mounted boosters, extending above and perhaps initially providing propellants to the core engines, and a reusable core like the shiny, might have been a continuation of the space age. Instead, LEO shuttle was the end of the first space stage.

A shuttle mounting either a crew module or a cargo module, but never a combination, was the path not taken. An unmanned cargo module would have been able to take hydrogen-oxygen Earth departure stages (EDS) into orbit without endangering a crew. An earlier launch placing a CSM/LM stack into orbit to dock with the EDS would have continued the space age. The critical requirements for the shuttle program should have been full reusability and a cargo version capable of placing an EDS into orbit.

It is never too late to take two steps back and turn onto the correct path. As with Human Space Flight Beyond Earth Orbit (HSF-BEO), there is also progressive taxation and progressive wages…supporting the Nordic Model for the United States (universal health care and free college tuition).

I will keep praying.

3:00 “-When we were kinds, we saw the close-up shot of those NASA rockets going up, the country coming together-”

I was going to try and lay off the politics and get back into the original mission of this blog but…I cannot seem to do that when the space age is being referred to in this manner.

Whose country is this? The aging white males with no education, a low-paying job, and no hope of living the life their parents did are going to burn it all down out of sheer frustration and rage. It is true. And why is this? Greed. The homeowning 40 hour a week citizen with job security, medical care that will not bankrupt them, with one breadwinner and one homemaker…that seems gone forever. Wealth has been transferred upward from the middle class to the wealthy since the Reagan Revolution and now it is all about to melt down.

My aging white male poorly educated coworkers have been so propagandized they are now living in an alternate universe.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2022/02/05/international-space-station-crash-chris-hadfield-nasa-nwdywknd-vpx.cnn

Hadfield talks about how great spacex is but then talks about what a big problem space junk is. Ridiculous. He then goes on to talk about space tourism being the next big thing and how it will “free up NASA to explore.” Ridiculous.

The ISS never should have been built. Of the many paths Human Space Flight could have taken the most efficient, in terms of Low Earth Orbit, would have been to use the space shuttle to better advantage. The shuttle orbiters could have stayed up for close to the standard 6-month tour by either loading up on life support or being resupplied or a combination of both. The orbiter would have had to be landed by remote control or by a pilot transferred to the orbiter from another orbiter…or a combination of both. The fantastic sum of money squandered on the ISS should have been spent on semi-expendable robot lunar landers. This, however, is after the fact that the shuttle program itself was a mistake.

The best course, in hindsight, would have been modifying the Saturn V into a reusable system over the course of several decades. The first stage, capsule and tower being the first reusable components, followed by different iterations of the second and third stage. With a reusable, or partially reusable Super Heavy Lift Vehicle (SHLV) sending robot landers to the Moon the key piece of hardware would have been next. The critical missing piece of the puzzle was the “Fat Workshop.” This double hulled wet workshop would have been the basic crew compartment for everything to follow.

Before continuing, a review of the terms used on this blog concerning space-

1. Low Earth Orbit (LEO) Humans in LEO or below Geostationary Earth Orbit (GEO) are not technically engaging in Human Space Flight (HSF) but instead Orbital Flight. Space is generally defined as in or beyond GEO and below this as simply Earth Orbit.
2. Beyond Earth Orbit (BEO) This is catch-all term applying to any craft that flies above LEO and even above GEO but is still in Earth Orbit, often in an eccentric orbit.
3. Beyond Low Earth Orbit (BLEO) This is the “cislunar sea” found between GEO and Low Lunar Orbit (LLO) and generally refers to transits between the Earth and the Moon. This is where Lunar Cyclers operate.
4. Beyond Earth and Lunar Orbit (BELO) This generally refers to interplanetary flight.

There were many possible paths to establishing a permanent human presence in space. At every opportunity the U.S. went cheap and sabotaged any prospect of a successful program.

My comment on this YouTube video: “I was writing about this in 2015 on my wordpress blog “Ice on the Moon” and wrote an article for space science magazine titled “Water and Bombs.” I have since refined my view into what I call the “Parker-Dyson-Spudis-Continuum” (PDSC). This states that a massive water shield derived from lunar ice and Nuclear Pulse Propulsion (bombs) is the only way we are going Beyond Earth and Lunar Orbit (BELO). The best first destination is NOT Mars, which is a dead end, but Ceres. That is, after we have created a cislunar infrastructure to support constructing “true” spaceships providing a Near Sea Level 1 Gravity environment (NSL1G). Along with the PDSC I believe the critical piece of missing hardware is the “Fat Workshop” which is a double hulled wet workshop to facilitate shielded crew compartments for spaceships, lunar cyclers, GEO telecom platforms, etc. and…I am not a Musk fan.”

Another danger sign. These creatures are an abomination…they represent, literally, genocide of other races, of women and children, of the disabled. They support that as an ideology. And they are starting to show up on the streets.

I am back after almost a month. This was probably a good reason to start up again.

4:50 “-racism is a mechanism of power, which is why you see many people who aren’t personally racist at all, who are simply…want their taxes cut, don’t want government regulation, exploiting any means they can, supporting any kind of mass panic, be it a racial panic, be it a panic about COVID, to push people to vote for an extremist movement that is going to pad their pockets.”

5:25 “-many business elites, particularly in the hydrocarbon business, they recognize that their work is against the public good. So…they need to support a movement that will split apart the public and result in a system that they can control.”

The contemporary American fascist movement is led by oligarchical interests for whom the public good is an impediment…” Jason Stanley

Paraphrasing Kathleen Belew: All of us are more violent in the aftermath of war (Afghanistan)…Certainly, we are experiencing one of these historic peaks. “We are at a crisis point that just boggles understanding.”